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Change term - move typeStatus from Identification to MaterialEntity #525
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@nielsklazenga Would you also go so far as to change the definition to be explicit? "A list (concatenated and separated) of nomenclatural types (type status, typified scientific name, publication) applied to the dwc:MaterialEntity"? |
@tucotuco , yes, that makes sense. However, if we are going to change the definition, I would make another small change:
I think we should leave the publication out of the definition, as nine out of ten times it is the same as the Also, while we are at it, in the examples |
There are other implications to think of going forward. It make me a bit nervous that a generic physical object should have a type status attribute. It seems too much of a specialized characteristic. Is that a characteristic inherent in the material? Or is it a designation applied to a piece of material following some process. The latter makes for a better model, I think, and allows the process to be repeated for additional type designations. None of that is inherent in the material, and it is much more problematic to model as if it were. As we seek to build a semantic layer for Darwin Core, the semantics will be crucial. |
There was a reason I did not start tinkering with the definition immediately. Yes, it is a bit counterintuitive. In a nomenclatural type designation, the Name is the subject and the Specimen is the object. So, if things were simple and we did not want to hang more information off this relation, we could just have a We have defined (or propose to define) a The NomenclaturalType (or 'type status') is of course just a special case of a So, people who are concerned about models would not use |
Changed label to 'normative' as there is a semantic changed proposed to the definition. |
As we already closed #328 because of stability arguments trying to change the dwc:typeStatus definition, I would suggest to stick to the original proposal to simply move the term to the MaterialEntity class and leave anything else as it was. Can we agree on that? |
I am happy either way but the changes proposed to the definition seem uncontroversial to me and do not change the meaning of the term, so why pass up an opportunity to improve the definition? |
Removing the publication from the definition you mean
Proposed by @tucotuco above:
I don't think at a minimum is good addition as the typified scientific name is not given frequently in current practise. It would also slightly change the meaning just as removing the publication does. On a side note, the phrase "A list of nomenclatural types" does trigger some very different meaning in my head. If someone tells me to give him a list of nomenclatural types, I would expect to see type material citations ;) For me the entire sentance "A list of nomenclatural types ... applied to the MaterialEntity" makes no sense. The only understandable bit is the list in brackets and the examples. |
@tucotuco captured my concerns with this sentence:
Many people think of it this way (that typeStatus is a property of a physical object), because there is a label on a specimen that includes a typeStatus value. But as I've said elsewhere, this is a lazy way of representing the actual situation, which is that a typeStatus is a property of the intersection of a physical object and a scientific name (aka: Identification), as asserted within a publication. Just because many people don't have the publication information, doesn't mean it's not important information; and as @nielsklazenga noted, 90% of the time it's the same as namePublishedIn -- which means that 10% of the time it's not the same as namePublishedIn. |
How on earth can that be a concern? 99 per cent of physical objects will not have a Nobody says that the place a typification is published is not important, but that does not mean it should be required. There is also the issue that a publication cited in the citation of a nomenclatural type it will most likely be the |
@mdoering, the 'at a minimum' does not have to be there for me, but it indicates that I do not really like the 'A list of ...' either, but it just indicates that a specimen can be the nomenclatural type of more than one name and is written in the same way as in various other Darwin Core terms that can have multiple values. It is also already in the current definition and I thought I'd pick my battles. |
@nielsklazenga my point is that 92% of records in GBIF are simply the type status, e.g. holotype, and do not include anything further. Changing the definition to "at a minimum type of type and typified scientific name" seems to render all these values wrong as they miss the name. Plus "type of type" is pretty hard to understand for normal people. Overall I think the definition we had was better. |
@mdoering, looks like GBIF has a major data quality issue on its hands. Those values are wrong under the current definition, which already says that We could move the entire bit in parentheses to usage notes, but usage notes in Darwin Core are not normative (I think) and the typified name being part of the The term 'type of type' (https://github.com/tdwg/ontology/blob/master/ontology/voc/TaxonName.rdf#L389) being hard to understand for normal people is a funny argument given that the same normal people got the meaning of |
the values you see, like holotype, are what people (including me) intuitively, without reading the exact dwc definition, think type status means. type status is intuitively just the status. We currently even use the term recursively in it's own definition - with the inner usage meaning again just the status. A mess. |
I am linking a GBIF comment from the typifiedName discussion, that GBIF interprets dwc:typeStatus just as the status value for the type and clearly recommends against including the typified name or publication which would get flagged as invalid values. |
@tucotuco, I think it would be best to table this proposal for when the work on a more structured approach to Darwin core that was alluded to in #28 takes place and remove it from the current milestone if that is possible. Although I stand behind the proposal, it could be quite disruptive, as moving |
@nielsklazenga The work on structured Darwin Core (called Darwin Core Data Package, 'DwC-DP', which will come with a Semantic Layer Applicability Statement) is actually quite mature. We expect to open the public review for the whole thing at the beginning of September. In that model, typestatus is a property of the Identification class. The Identification class acts precisely as the Identification History Extension, allowing things that are Identifiable (Material, Organisms in Occurrences, GeneticSequences) to have as many Identifications as desired. If typeStatus and the accompanying typifiedName were properties of the MaterialEntity class they would have to support lists, and since the two terms would be separate, the content of those two lists would be decoupled, so different orders in the lists would misconnect the typeStatus and the typifiedName. That can't happen in an Identification record where lists are not supported. THE typeStatus in the Identification would be singularly coupled with THE typifiedName in that Identification record - no confusion possible. To me, having resolution on the typeStatus/typifiedName in this current public review would be ideal, because there is going to be SOOOO much more to consider in the DwC-DP review, each one of which might end up in extended discussions. The fewer the number of extended discussions to have to resolve in that review, the better. |
Thanks @tucotuco. So I take it you are interested in pursuing the discussion here? I am actually going to take a bit of a break from this, as I want to have TCS out for public review before the TDWG Working Sessions, but I can get back to it when that is out of the way. Just noting for now that There is also an issue for a JSON-LD guide (#447). I presume it is the intention that there will be some concordance between DwC-DP and the JSON-LD. In JSON-LD it is not possible to have I have not heard about this for a while, but a few years ago there was this thing going on about alignment between TDWG standards. ABCD 2.06 is a TDWG standard and ABCD has got this right. Why reinvent the wheel? |
@nielsklazenga raises an important point regarding the fact that the definition of
This makes absolutely no sense in the context of Also, the point about JSON-LD underscores a much more fundamental and long-standing issue within TDWG/DwC-space, which is the conflation of nomenclatural information with taxonomic information. There are good reasons why they've historically been conflated (i.e., they've been conflated by a long history of actual taxonomic practice, and biodiversity informatics wasn't [and kind of still isn't] mature enough to adequately disentagle them). All my soap-box preaching over the years about the notion of "Taxon[omic] Name Usages" stems from the recognition that such TNUs lie at the core of both Taxonomy and Nomenclature, and may offer a pathway for the much-sought-after "GUMTI" ("Grand Unified Model for Taxonomic Information"). In any case, I agree with what @nielsklazenga says above, especially with respect to the current definition of |
It seems to me that the current definition Example data : CANB 377016.1 https://avh.ala.org.au/occurrences/ea4a580a-2f0f-49ce-b57e-dbc2901ef69c (noting the supplied data has been post processed) so the definition in identification works, if the data is to be split up it needs to be in a different structure so that information is not lost. |
@afuchs1 yes, exactly -- this is needed to accommodate multiple typeStatus instances for a particular specimen (MaterialSample/MaterialEntity). But in the contenxt of an Identification, there would me multiple separate instances, one of which asserts CANB 377016.1 as Hibbertia complanata with |
Term change
typeStatus
in theIdentification
class is problematic, as discussed in New term - typifiedName #28 , but until now there was no better place to put it. The newMaterialEntity
class, however, is a very good fit.Current Term definition: https://dwc.tdwg.org/list/#dwc_typeStatus
Proposed attributes of the new term version (Please put actual changes to be implemented in bold and
strikethrough):IdentificationMaterialEntityThe text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: